Thanks for joining us Jamie. You started off in recruitment... how did that start and how did you then transition into the online slots and sector?
It was my first job out of university, and I was in recruitment for a company called Michael Page. I really enjoyed it, but growing up I always had an interest in gambling; I was there for a few years in the recruitment sector and then after being introduced to someone who worked alongside Teddy Sagi at Playtech – I was introduced to this company that was going to be selling white-label solutions in the UK and that was my first entry into it. A friend of a friend then said are you interested in looking at a role in affiliation for the white labels that we're going to set up, and that company was called Webroot Services. That's how I entered the gaming realm many years ago now. So, all together, I've been in this industry for about 15-20 years.
We noticed that you spent some time working in Cape Town in South Africa. Was that in a similar industry or was that your first array into the gambling world?
No, South Africa was a bit further down the line. That was after setting up my first affiliate business. I was working in affiliation on the operator side for about six to seven years with Web Services and William Hill. After that, I decided to set up my own affiliate website focusing on online bingo, which was the absolute fad in the UK at the time. So, the point of going to South Africa was to set up the operations there because they're a lot cheaper in terms of staffing, English speaking and no time difference; then I expanded on the operation in Cape Town – hence why I was there for three years.
And how did the work culture feel there in comparison to the UK?
It was good. There's a lot of igaming companies out there. I ended up recruiting quite a few people that worked at Microgaming, before it became Games Global. There were people working for operator brands under the Microgaming umbrella. It took a couple of SEO-driven people, but the whole business has always been with me, it’s always been very much SEO focused – our gaming market in general but that's a whole discussion in itself at the moment.
Certainly, in the UK, which is where we were working at that moment was a predominant market. But in terms of South Africa, it was a great experience for me. I've always been a traveller. I lived in the US for one year, so I've always been well travelled, and I never really settled in the UK other than growing up there. I originally grew up in Stanmore, just outside of London, near Middlesex.
95% of affiliates I used to compete with are not even on Google anymore. The guys that started five to 10 years ago like us in terms of SEO still don't have that trust factor
Well, that’s funny because our Editor met his wife there! Small world. So Fruity Slots – when did the initial idea come about? Because I know you and your Co-Founder Josh were one of the first streamers to play online slots and gaming live.
We went to a couple of conferences and saw people. A couple of streamers were already doing it and a couple of people we knew said it was lucrative. We've always had an interest in poker and slots, as well as working in the industry. And in regards to the name – I was a big fruit machine player, back in the days when it was £15 ($20.42) or £25 jackpots. There were a lot of tricks of the trade and ways to win on those machines. So I would spend all day, walking around with pound coins in my hand and playing those fruit machines. That's where the name “Fruity Slots” comes from!
We never actually recorded any live stuff because by the time we launched Fruity Slots, they'd already moved on from those types of bar press machines to online slots – we started to play online and from our connections with the people in the industry. We were just streaming and making videos at each other's houses, that's where it all started.
Interesting! And how did it develop from there?
Affiliate links were given to us because of my working relationships through the years, and we took it from there. We built a very basic website, started bringing customers in and promoting these casinos on our streams. Since then, we've invested a lot of money in tech for good and for bad. Certainly without knowing, we spent four or five years in SEO without doing anything special concerning marketing, other than building a brand Google loved – or used to love anyway. Eventually we started ranking for some big keywords in the UK and it grew from there.
We've always been very focused on the UK, certainly regarding the SEO space. But the SEO side is now littered with illegal casinos; these are casinos that will just steal your money and you'll never win. It's the lowest of the low and we're one of those guys that have been affected by them. The landscape of SEO has completely changed; 95% of affiliates I used to compete withare not even in Google anymore. The guys that started five to 10 years ago like us still don't have that trust factor in the SEO market.
The SEO side is now littered with illegal casinos; these are casinos that will just steal your money and you'll never win. It's the lowest of the low
There's been a lot of emerging trends recently in slot streaming, like CCTV betting for example. What do you think about those new avenues that have emerged now?
It's interesting when it comes to streaming, because we're veterans and it's our target demographic. It's not the same target demographic a lot of these streamers have now; these guys have gone from being influencers themselves to punters because they realise how lucrative it is in terms of influencing players to join casinos. Having a much older audience, I don't think we're going to start betting on which car's going to turn left next, that's very much on the crypto side of it. As much as we do try and align with the younger demographic, it's difficult. Our competitors have got younger audiences than us and we believe in the fact that responsibility matters. We don't want to disassociate ourselves from our core audience. That's not for us; we will always stick to sensibility.
Lastly, how would you measure success...?
I think we measure it in terms of our live viewers. Josh and I, we don't stream as much anymore, but whenever we come back on the stream and we're together, our views increase massively. Last year, my success was seeing that we had 5,500 people watching live on YouTube, we never really believed we'd be able to influence in that way – other measures of success are adapting to certain content that we're doing now and that we haven't done in the past, which is IRL (in real life) stuff. When I say IRL, it's the trends emerging among the younger audience, we do have a couple of streamers that work for the business that are incredibly charismatic.
Success overall is building a community. Seeing so much brand search organically is wonderful, you never plan to build a brand or even a semi-brand, but certainly in this industry and in the UK, black-hat tactics are impacting. Even our brand is not helping us, because of these tactics that Google seem to be allowing. It's sad that they're damaging so many people, getting them to play so many illegal casinos that the players have got no chance of winning. These casinos have massive holds. We hope Google will be able to give us a chance again.